Tracey Gronniger: Hey everybody and welcome to immediately’s webinar presentation entitled Campos et al v. Kijakazi Settlement Settlement: What SSI Advocates Must Know? I’m Tracey Gronniger, Managing Director of Financial Safety and Housing right here at Justice and Getting older. I’ll principally be silently moderating immediately’s webinar, however I’m right here to get us began. I’m joined by our presenters, Kate Lang, Director of Federal Revenue Safety, additionally at Justice and Getting older, and Michelle Spadafore, who’s a senior supervising legal professional at New York Authorized Help Group or NYLAG. Now we have the subsequent slide, please.
Earlier than we get began, I want to go over a couple of webinar logistics. Once more, welcome to all contributors. You might be all on mute, however we welcome your participation in immediately’s presentation via the Q&A operate within the Zoom management panel. Additionally accessible within the Zoom management panel is the closed caption button, which permits closed captioning. I will probably be watching the participant questions as they arrive in via the webinar and I’ll uplift excessive degree themes through the Q&A section on the finish of immediately’s presentation. We all know that there’s lots happening with SSA not too long ago, however we’re not going to be addressing these developments immediately. However some other questions that you’ve which are unanswered in immediately’s webinar will probably be addressed through electronic mail following the conclusion of this presentation. And it’s also possible to use the Q&A operate to request technical help with Zoom. You may also ship an electronic mail to trainings@justiceandaging.org and you could find supplies for this coaching in our useful resource library.
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So Justice and Getting older. Justice and Getting older is a nationwide group that makes use of the facility of regulation to battle senior poverty by securing entry to inexpensive healthcare, financial safety, and the courts for older adults with restricted assets. Since 1972, we targeted our efforts totally on combating for individuals who have been marginalized and excluded from justice, together with ladies, individuals of colour, LGBTQ+ people, and other people with restricted English proficiency.
Justice in Getting older can be dedicated to advancing fairness for low earnings older adults in financial safety, healthcare, housing, and elder justice initiatives. We try to deal with the enduring harms and inequities attributable to systemic racism and different types of discrimination that uniquely affect low earnings older adults in marginalized communities.
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So thanks for sticking with us via that background info. I’m now going to show it over to the presenters to get began.
Kate Lang: Thanks a lot, Tracey, for getting us began. My title is Kate Lang, I’m with Justice in Getting older and I’m going to get our presentation began on the Campos v. Kijakazi settlement settlement. So if all of us assume again 5 years in the past to the beginning of the COVID-19 pandemic. In March of 2020, the Social Safety Administration closed their area places of work in response to the pandemic. In order that they despatched all of their staff dwelling, they stated, “Don’t come into the places of work,” and so they closed the places of work to members of the general public. And at that time there was no agency-wide distant work plan in place. So these SSA staff at dwelling didn’t have the tools that they might’ve wanted to do their work and so they didn’t have entry to SSA methods, they didn’t have telephones or laptops and so they didn’t have actually insurance policies in place for the way these staff of SSA may do their work in a safe means at dwelling.
So this resulted in SSA stopping all guide processes and that features lowering or suspending supplemental safety earnings or SSI advantages. For these of you who’re accustomed to SSI, I’m assuming all people who’s joined immediately’s webinar is accustomed to SSI and accustomed to all its monetary eligibility guidelines for earnings, assets, the place individuals dwell. These are all guidelines that apply to any individual’s advantages every month. So any change in these would require SSA to take motion on any individual’s SSI advantages every month.
And on account of SSA suspending this work, all of their guide processes together with work on the advantages of SSI recipients, there have been extra overpayments and bigger overpayments on account of SSA suspending its guide processes.
So then a couple of months later, SSA bought the tools to their staff that they wanted to make money working from home. They put insurance policies in place round SSA staff having a safe atmosphere at dwelling to do their work and began having these guide processes start up once more. Despite the fact that the sector places of work remained closed, SSA staff started to do distant work on guide processes. And beneficiaries as a result of the sector places of work had been closed, they struggled to report adjustments to the company or request that any ensuing overpayments be waived.
So then in the long run of August of 2020, on August twenty seventh of 2020 SSA revealed an interim ultimate rule within the federal register. It’s known as Waiver of Restoration of Sure Overpayment Money owed Accruing Throughout the COVID-19 Pandemic Interval. In order that they recognized this pandemic interval as once they had suspended their guide processes, any overpayments that incurred between March 1st of 2020 and September thirtieth of 2020, that the company recognized by December thirty first of 2020 that had been the results of SSA suspending their guide processes.
So there have been, I ought to say I’ve been speaking about guide processes. That’s many of the majority of the work that SSA does. There have been a couple of automated processes that continued throughout this era and people included knowledge matching with Veterans Affairs Administration knowledge and in addition with SSA’s personal knowledge in order that they knew, for instance, if any individual was a concurrent beneficiary receiving retirement advantages and SSA on the similar time, SSA’s personal methods saved speaking to one another robotically throughout this era.
So some other overpayments that occurred on account of SSA suspending guide processes was lined by this waiver course of within the IFR and so they specified within the IFR that any overpayments that resulted from fraud or comparable fault or involving misuse by a consultant payee wouldn’t be waived beneath this course of, identical to they wouldn’t be waived beneath common SSA waiver insurance policies.
However on this IFR, they created a brand new waiver course of that they known as Streamlined in order that the overpaid individual could be presumed to be not at fault in inflicting the overpayment and that it could be in opposition to fairness and good conscience to gather the overpayment from them, so satisfying the two-step course of in a waiver resolution. And so they stated that they might streamline this course of in that individuals wouldn’t have to finish a waiver utility on a paper kind, which is SSA-632 to request a waiver, that individuals may simply do it over the cellphone, may name up SSA and say, “I believe this overpayment ought to be waived,” and SSA would do it with out requiring them to finish the shape, however they might not refund any cash that had already been collected from the beneficiary as soon as that overpayment was waived. In order that’s a bit of bit totally different than the common waiver course of the place the individual can request that if the waiver is granted any cash that’s already been collected could be refunded. In order that they stated that’s not a chance with these waivers granted beneath the Streamlined course of.
So we had issues with this Streamlined waiver course of. We submitted feedback when it was revealed within the federal register. So despite the fact that it was a ultimate, an interim ultimate rule, there was a chance to submit feedback for 60 days. And principally we submitted feedback saying, “You understand all it’s essential find out about these overpayments, proper? You know the way they occurred. You understand that they had been attributable to SSA suspending its guide processes throughout this time interval. And for SSI recipients, you recognize that it could be a hardship for them to repay it, so you must simply go forward and waive these overpayments. Don’t require individuals to even name you on the cellphone and ask for it since you ought to simply waive them.” They ignored us and we waited to see if anyone would get a waiver beneath this Streamlined course of, but it surely didn’t go so nicely.
They didn’t actually successfully inform overpaid those who this new Streamlined course of existed. And even individuals who got here to, individuals like Michelle or different authorized assist advocates who knew about this Streamlined course of, they weren’t capable of put it to use. So, often the workers at SSA places of work wouldn’t comply with the method correctly. For instance, we heard about SSA staff telling the overpaid individual, “It’s a must to name this particular, like, I can’t do the waiver, it’s a must to name this particular worker at this particular phone quantity,” however no one ever answered that phone quantity and there was no technique to go away a message in order that successfully prevented individuals from accessing the waiver. Or SSA staff would inform the overpaid individual they needed to make an appointment with a particular SSA worker to request the Streamlined waiver from them over the cellphone, however that individual had no availability for appointments. So once more, no technique to entry the waiver. So it was not likely an efficient course of for individuals to get these overpayments waived.
So we sued the Social Safety Administration. We filed a nationwide class motion within the Japanese District of New York on behalf of 5 named SSI recipients with overpayments difficult this interim ultimate rule as arbitrary and capricious. We filed the grievance in September of 2021 and there was by no means any reply or motions or something filed by the Social Safety Administration in response to this. They contacted us fairly rapidly and stated, “We are able to work this out. Let’s discuss. Don’t droop the deadline for us submitting a solution. We should always negotiate a settlement on this.”
In order that’s what we did. It took a while and now Michelle goes to speak in regards to the settlement settlement we reached with SSA.
Michelle Spadafore: And I actually assume that they talked to us so quick as a result of they regarded within the system and stated, “What number of of those have we granted?” And so they realized that they hadn’t granted barely any as a result of each single one which my workplace requested for was denied for numerous totally different causes. In order that’s why we introduced the case.
Subsequent slide. So there’s a pair totally different items to the settlement settlement. One of many items is that we requested for them to have steerage put in place on COVID-19 circumstances that might have an effect on fault findings for a waiver dedication. So for the entire time interval in query from 2020 till the tip of the COVID interval, there’s an EM that talks in regards to the several types of issues that a person can increase once they have filed a waiver for an overpayment throughout this era that embody explanation why they may not have been capable of well timed report wages or earnings or one thing else to Social Safety, together with that they had been sick, a member of the family was sick, the workplace was closed, the workplace wasn’t answering the cellphone, they despatched it in, but it surely was misplaced. There’s a bunch of various issues all associated to the circumstances that had been happening throughout COVID and the way troublesome it was for individuals to report and to contact Social Safety, particularly through the time intervals once they had been closed and when their telephones weren’t working so nicely.
So anyone who has an overpayment incurred throughout that point interval, and that is for SSI and SSD people, Title II and Title XVI, can use that emergency message and use these components in the event that they’re submitting a waiver to boost explanation why they aren’t at fault and they need to go forward and achieve this, however they must file a waiver to make these allegations. This isn’t one thing the place they’re going to have an automated waiver utilized for making use of the allegations from this emergency message.
Subsequent slide. And so the entire individuals throughout this era that might have had an overpayment who’re SSI recipients will obtain this discover that they’d an overpayment assessed from March 2020 to April 2023, and that in the event that they fall into the smaller class, which we’ll speak about in a minute, that they might have automated waiver, but when they fall into the broader class of 2020 to 2023, that they will use the emergency message to file a waiver and use that for his or her fault argument and that they haven’t already executed a waiver, they need to. And in the event that they did a waiver earlier than they came upon that you possibly can use the COVID associated components, I might argue that any individual ought to return in and that that may be new info.
However anyone throughout this era SI, or SSD can use the EM for fault and to argue why they’re not at fault. However solely the SSI recipients are going to get these notices. And this may also go to the SSI recipients who Kate was speaking earlier about guide versus automated, this can go to each flavors of individuals. And so some individuals could have already been carved out of the automated waiver for March to September 2020, and people individuals for overpayments in these intervals may use the EM for submitting their very own waiver and making a no fault argument. Subsequent slide.
Kate Lang: Yeah, I’ll simply say now we have a hyperlink right here to a PDF of a duplicate of a redacted discover that individuals can have a look at in the event that they need to see what the discover appears to be like like. However we’re not going to attempt to problem ourselves technologically to point out you a duplicate of the discover proper now, however there’s a hyperlink within the supplies to see one in the event you’re curious. In the event you’re undecided if the discover your shopper has gotten is a Campos discover there’s one within the supplies so you possibly can examine it and see if that’s what you’ve bought.
Michelle Spadafore: So one piece of the settlement is an automated waiver of overpayments from March to September 2020. Social Safety doesn’t just like the phrase automated, however we use the phrase automated as a result of it’s a better rationalization of what’s going to occur, which is that it’s going to occur robotically. You don’t should file a waiver in the event you had one of many overpayments that was not carved out so the guide overpayments, it’s not because of fraud or comparable fault, it’s not because of payee abuse that got here throughout March to September 2020, that overpayment goes to be robotically waived and also you don’t should do something. The claimant doesn’t should do something. It’s simply going to occur. Social Safety goes to do it of their system. You don’t should submit a waiver request. Social Safety will ship a separate discover with details about the waiver after it’s granted, however they may grant it after which not ship that discover for months and months and months, so the 2 aren’t essentially going to occur very shut in time.
They’ve stated that they are going to grant these waivers by June 2025. We’ll see if it truly occurs that quick, however that it may take a yr or extra so that you can truly get the discover that they did it. So these issues will not be going to appear to be they’re tied in time, however they, principally simply regulate the checking account that the Social Safety cash goes into. That’s the place you’re in search of.
If any individual has already repaid some or all of their overpayment from that point interval, they’re going to get that cash again and that’s going to be known as an underpayment. Now be mindful if an individual has a distinct overpayment that hasn’t been collected, so let’s say their 2020 overpayment hasn’t been collected in any respect as a result of they’re nonetheless engaged on their 2018 overpayment, they’re not going to get something again in the event that they didn’t truly get cash taken away but as a result of they’re nonetheless engaged on that outdated overpayment. Or it’s additionally potential that Social Safety did absolutely get better this 2020 overpayment, however now they’ve a brand new overpayment that’s being recouped on and Social Safety is just not going to present them the cash again. Social Safety goes to make use of the cash that ought to be repaid to them, the underpayment to offset the overpayment that they owe on this different overpayment.
So in case you have a person who’s anticipating to get again cash, however hasn’t, in all probability the probably rationalization is that that overpayment both by no means bought collected within the first place as a result of they’ve been recouped on this older one the entire time, or that it was recovered and now it’s going to pay again a brand new overpayment. If any individual’s completely within the clear and isn’t being recouped in any respect for something, you then would anticipate to positively see them to get the response to get the cash again.
I’ll observe, primarily based on the discover, it says, “In case you have any questions, name your native workplace.” In case you have any questions, name their native workplace. Please don’t name me and Kate, we can not repair this stuff. I imply, until you see one thing that’s wildly going off the rails that you just like are like, “Oh wow, Social Safety is actually not doing what it’s alleged to do with the settlement settlement.” But when it’s only a query of determining what’s happening and when any individual’s going to get their a refund, that could be a area workplace associated query.
They’ll problem the funds through direct deposit or direct categorical. Mainly, you’re going to search for wherever the individual’s advantages at present go. That’s the place you’re going to search for the response. Like we stated for this era, March to September 2020, you don’t should submit any further paperwork. You don’t should submit a waiver, you don’t even should name about it. You may simply wait and see what occurs. After which provided that you didn’t get it after let’s say July, would you then need to name and say, “Wait, the place’s my cash?” Like every retroactive Social Safety fee, you’ve 9 months to spend it down. In any other case, it’ll be counted as a useful resource for SSI advantages.
Subsequent slide. Subsequent slide. So right here there are some hyperlinks within the supplies to totally different details about Campos. The primary one is the emergency message that talks in regards to the fault items that we had been speaking about earlier. There’s additionally the Campos settlement webpage for Social Safety’s web site. There may be the brand new and great POMS on presumptions of not at fault for waiver determinations. Please ensure that to test this POMS immediately earlier than you do something. This POMS might be modified or go away at any second because the 100% overpayment price simply bought reinstated, we don’t know what sort of adjustments we’re going to be seeing within the POMS. So something that you’re given POMS-wise within the subsequent, simply all the time test your POMS, ensure that it’s nonetheless correct. However at present, paragraph B.20, it talks about overpayments through the COVID-19 pandemic interval and offers for presumptions of not at fault in sure circumstances. Subsequent slide.
Kate Lang: Yeah, and I simply needed to level out that this paragraph of the part of the POMS does apply to each Title II and Title XVI overpayment. So in the event you do have any individual with an SSDI overpayment from the March to September 2020, you would wish to do a waiver utility, however you’ll need to cite to this paragraph of the POMS. Let’s see what’s subsequent.
Michelle Spadafore: There’s a truth sheet in regards to the settlement settlement on our web site, and there’s additionally a webinar that was not too long ago executed that talks in regards to the updates to the Social Safety overpayment insurance policies of which there are lots of and so they’re actually, actually good. But additionally we don’t understand how lengthy they’re going to final as a result of every thing is on fireplace. So hopefully they final and at the least a few of them do. However with these slides as nicely, please ensure that any POMS that cited in these slides that you just go and test the POMS and ensure it’s nonetheless up-to-date. The very best factor if you’re taking a look at POMS to know whether or not one thing’s modified from what was being talked about in these assets is you must search for the date on the highest right-hand nook of the POMS and see if it falls earlier than or after the date of the assets that you just had been working with. And that’s it. Questions?
Tracey Gronniger: Thanks each of you. That was actually useful. There are some questions right here, so I’ll leap in. One individual requested whether or not or not somebody can cease making funds if they’re at present paying off overpayments from this era, or whether or not they need to ask for them to be waived. Is that one thing that may occur?
Kate Lang: One thing we haven’t stated but that’s all the time price repeating is that there’s no deadline for submitting a waiver utility. A waiver utility will be submitted at any time, so there’s no hurt in ready. So if any individual is aware of that the overpayment that they’re paying on for an SSI recipient is between March and September of 2020 and so they understand it was the results of the suspension of guide processes, no fraud or comparable fault or misused by a payee concerned, then yeah, they will wait and hopefully get that cash that they’ve been paying in now and they’d get it refunded later within the subsequent few months, within the coming months. But when any individual is worried or having bother making these funds, doesn’t need to watch for a refund down the road, then sure, they need to go forward and submit a waiver utility, full that paper kind 632 and submit it to SSA. As soon as that waiver utility has been submitted to SSA, then any assortment on the overpayment ought to cease whereas SSA is making a call on that waiver utility.
Michelle Spadafore: And if they’ve an overpayment that covers a broader interval, proper? So let’s say it begins in March 2020, but it surely additionally goes to March 2021, proper? So a number of the interval’s going to be lined by the automated waiver and a number of the interval is just not. They’ll file a waiver on, I imply, technically they might file a waiver on the entire interval. They’re not going to wish to file a waiver on the entire interval as a result of a part of it’s going to be robotically waived, but it surely doesn’t harm. So they might file a waiver on the entire interval. A part of it will likely be robotically waived after which a part of it will likely be checked out beneath the brand new EM.
So they need to additionally, in the event that they’re going to file a waiver for that different a part of the interval, they need to have a look at the EM and see if any of the COVID associated circumstances apply to their case and they need to argue that of their no fault argument. And they need to additionally have a look at the POMS that talks about presumptions of no fault and argue that of their no fault argument. After which in the event that they’re at present nonetheless an SSI beneficiary, then restoration already is deemed to defeat the aim. They don’t should do the monetary portion of the waiver. They actually solely should do web page one and two and 9, after which they’re executed. So it may be actually, actually quick. And also you’ve bought all these assets to only plug in for the no fault piece, the restoration is robotically deemed a defeat for SSI people, so that you don’t should do any of the monetary portion.
After which what would occur, I might assume on the native workplace is that they have a look at the March to September half, that may robotically be waived. After which something from October onwards, you’d do your regular factor, you’d have a convention, no matter. They speak about what occurred throughout COVID, then it could both get waived or not waived or partially waived.
One benefit of the EM can be have a look at the fault arguments there. They’re not saying that you just needed to name each day to write down a report. They’re saying you needed to make an try, proper? So, it’s positively if there’s something that stood of their means, and for most individuals there’s that was COVID associated throughout that point interval, they need to speak about it.
Additionally, Kate talked earlier about in case your shopper falls into the class of guide overpayment, not fraud or comparable fault, not abuse, you then’re going to be on this class. In case that you just hear these three issues and also you’re like, “However how do I do know I’m a type of three issues?” Very, very, very, very typically. You’d completely know in the event that they’re supplying you with fraud or comparable fault issues. And in the event that they’re supplying you with payee abuse issues, you’ll’ve heard about it. They might’ve been jerks and you’ll know as a result of they might’ve been saying it. Within the context of whether or not it’s guide or not guide, the way in which you’ll’ve identified is you’ll’ve bought your overpayment notices again within the day. You’d’ve bought them between March and September 2020 as a result of that was the one factor robotically going out. It didn’t require guide motion to exit. And so these had been already taking place between March and September. So you’ll know that these didn’t rely. So if you began getting notices after September, these are how you recognize that these had been the guide overpayments and never the automated ones.
Tracey Gronniger: Somebody additionally requested how binding the settlement settlement is and questioning if there’s any purpose that we expect that there’s a means it might be rescinded or modified or if that is ultimate.
Kate Lang: So the settlement settlement is ultimate and it doesn’t hamper any particular person from pursuing their very own rights concerning their very own overpayments. So if any individual had an overpayment discover, in the event you needed to file an attraction, you’ll’ve needed to file it inside 60 days of getting that overpayment discover or have good trigger for late submitting the attraction. However nothing on this settlement settlement precludes somebody from interesting an overpayment, from submitting their very own waiver utility, from pursuing some other, negotiating a distinct compensation quantity or something like that. So individuals nonetheless have the power to pursue aid for themselves on a person foundation. The settlement settlement doesn’t preclude anyone from pursuing something on their very own overpayment.
Tracey Gronniger: Thanks. Another person requested, “Does any of this apply to survivor’s advantages?”
Kate Lang: Proper. So we’ve been speaking a bit of bit about Title II and Title XVI, and this case was solely about SSI recipients, solely Title XVI advantages. So survivors is beneath Title II. So this settlement settlement doesn’t apply to individuals who would have an overpayment concerning survivors advantages, however we talked about that there at the moment are language within the POMS about presumptions concerning Title II overpayments that occurred through the COVID interval. So if any individual has a survivor’s overpayment from 2020, then I might advocate that they check out the emergency message, the EM and that part of the POMS, that paragraph B.20, to have a look and go forward and file a waiver utility utilizing the language from the assets. However there’s not going to be any automated waiver of survivor overpayments.
Tracey Gronniger: I believe you all have hit on the primary questions which were requested. I believe that another person commented that they hoped we’d hold them knowledgeable about issues which are taking place and adjustments, which we all the time do and we’ll. And I believe some individuals actually appreciated how informative this was and the way academic this has been. So for the individuals who have actually extra particular questions or different questions, I believe they may not apply to this full webinar. You may reply individually, however I believe you’ve answered the primary questions. Are there some other issues that you just guys needed to deliver up or increase earlier than we finish?
Kate Lang: No, simply to emphasise if individuals have questions on their particular overpayments, Michelle and I can not reply them. We’ve been getting emails and cellphone calls from beneficiaries and their representatives since these notices began going out in February. We don’t have the details about your particular overpayments. We can not reply these questions. I do know it’s troublesome to get via to SSA today, however they’ve the knowledge that may reply your questions on your particular overpayments, so individuals have to follow-up with the company immediately. However in case you have extra common questions in regards to the settlement, we’re joyful to reply that. And we all know that individuals have a number of questions and issues about what’s happening at SSA today, and we will probably be placing out extra info as now we have it to share with people via our community.
Tracey Gronniger: Nice. Thanks a lot. I believe we’ve touched on all the primary questions. We actually recognize everybody’s participation. I need to thank the presenters. We’re actually hoping that folk will full the put up webinar survey that may come after this as a result of your suggestions is actually necessary on these applications and these shows. I hope that you just all have an amazing remainder of the day. And at last, I simply needed to let people find out about our community. Justice and Getting older produces a number of info just like the webinar that you’re viewing with truth sheets, problem briefs, alerts, and different materials to maintain you updated on all of the necessary developments which are taking place. So in the event you’re not already a member of our community, we encourage you to affix by going to our web site and signing up or just sending an electronic mail to information@justiceinaging.org. So thanks everybody for taking part immediately.
